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	<title>Comments on: Toxic Veganism: Boycott Soy</title>
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	<description>Local Action, Global Change</description>
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		<title>By: jim</title>
		<link>http://rachael.commoncircle.net/2009/06/19/toxic-veganism-boycott-soy/comment-page-1/#comment-162</link>
		<dc:creator>jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 22:03:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rachael.commoncircle.net/?p=30#comment-162</guid>
		<description>P.S. I agree with many in that we should NOT be cutting down rain-forests ... or forests anywhere for that matter. I laughed/cried when I first heard someone wanted to build &quot;electronic&quot; trees to suck up CO2. This is just a thinly veiled attempt to further pick the pockets of the taxpayers by corporate moguls trading on the fears of ignorant ecofreaks everywhere to leverage legal might into more corporate profits with little or no benefit to anyone least of all the planet. Instead of spending tens of millions of dollars on more gadgets to enrich the favored few, plant millions of trees and not only will they suck up CO2, they will release 02 (which we all need) as a bonus. It&#039;s all in the design folks. If we can just stop twittering and texting long enough to notice. And what can be said about all the buying and selling of thin-air, also referred to as CO2 credits? Just more insanity similar to buying H2O in plastic bottles for $8-$10 a gallon when it comes out of the tap most places in the US for pennies. [If your water is that bad, dig a new well or hook up to the municipal water or install a filter for crying out loud.]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S. I agree with many in that we should NOT be cutting down rain-forests &#8230; or forests anywhere for that matter. I laughed/cried when I first heard someone wanted to build &#8220;electronic&#8221; trees to suck up CO2. This is just a thinly veiled attempt to further pick the pockets of the taxpayers by corporate moguls trading on the fears of ignorant ecofreaks everywhere to leverage legal might into more corporate profits with little or no benefit to anyone least of all the planet. Instead of spending tens of millions of dollars on more gadgets to enrich the favored few, plant millions of trees and not only will they suck up CO2, they will release 02 (which we all need) as a bonus. It&#8217;s all in the design folks. If we can just stop twittering and texting long enough to notice. And what can be said about all the buying and selling of thin-air, also referred to as CO2 credits? Just more insanity similar to buying H2O in plastic bottles for $8-$10 a gallon when it comes out of the tap most places in the US for pennies. [If your water is that bad, dig a new well or hook up to the municipal water or install a filter for crying out loud.]</p>
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		<title>By: jim</title>
		<link>http://rachael.commoncircle.net/2009/06/19/toxic-veganism-boycott-soy/comment-page-1/#comment-161</link>
		<dc:creator>jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 21:52:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rachael.commoncircle.net/?p=30#comment-161</guid>
		<description>As Jim pointed out, we are omnivores. One only has to examine our teeth to see the design: tearing teeth in front and grinding teeth in back. It is what it is. One may wax eloquent one way or the other on veganism or whatever but facts are facts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Jim pointed out, we are omnivores. One only has to examine our teeth to see the design: tearing teeth in front and grinding teeth in back. It is what it is. One may wax eloquent one way or the other on veganism or whatever but facts are facts.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://rachael.commoncircle.net/2009/06/19/toxic-veganism-boycott-soy/comment-page-1/#comment-160</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 22:01:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rachael.commoncircle.net/?p=30#comment-160</guid>
		<description>The human species evolved as an omnivore.  As such meat plays a crucial role in the human diet, for example the only form of vitamin B12 the human body can process comes from red meat.  B12 is very important to our bodies, as without it many hormones cannot be triggered.

In addition, fat in the form of saturated fats (mostly from red meat and fish, but available from Coconut Oil) is essential for the human body to process fat soluble vitamins, minerals and enzymes.  As for fish, it is so toxic now that I no longer eat it, except for the fish lower on the food chain, such as sardines, herring and mackerel.  Give me a good bloody pastured steak from beef, bison, venison or lamb.   Much healthier, especially if you buy it directly from the farmer or at your local farmers market.  Consuming local meat, raw dairy and veggies in season are the best way to save the planet.

Funny how ignorant many vegans are about the requirements of the human body and their own bodies.

For more information check out &quot;Nourishing Traditions: The Cookbook that Challenges Politically Correct Nutrition and the Diet Dictocrats&quot; by Sally Fallon and for more information on why soy is toxic to humans and other issues related to the human diet and health, check out natural doctor, Dr. Mercola&#039;s website at www.mercola.com.

Peace,
Jim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The human species evolved as an omnivore.  As such meat plays a crucial role in the human diet, for example the only form of vitamin B12 the human body can process comes from red meat.  B12 is very important to our bodies, as without it many hormones cannot be triggered.</p>
<p>In addition, fat in the form of saturated fats (mostly from red meat and fish, but available from Coconut Oil) is essential for the human body to process fat soluble vitamins, minerals and enzymes.  As for fish, it is so toxic now that I no longer eat it, except for the fish lower on the food chain, such as sardines, herring and mackerel.  Give me a good bloody pastured steak from beef, bison, venison or lamb.   Much healthier, especially if you buy it directly from the farmer or at your local farmers market.  Consuming local meat, raw dairy and veggies in season are the best way to save the planet.</p>
<p>Funny how ignorant many vegans are about the requirements of the human body and their own bodies.</p>
<p>For more information check out &#8220;Nourishing Traditions: The Cookbook that Challenges Politically Correct Nutrition and the Diet Dictocrats&#8221; by Sally Fallon and for more information on why soy is toxic to humans and other issues related to the human diet and health, check out natural doctor, Dr. Mercola&#8217;s website at <a href="http://www.mercola.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.mercola.com</a>.</p>
<p>Peace,<br />
Jim</p>
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		<title>By: ecotroll</title>
		<link>http://rachael.commoncircle.net/2009/06/19/toxic-veganism-boycott-soy/comment-page-1/#comment-154</link>
		<dc:creator>ecotroll</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 20:30:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rachael.commoncircle.net/?p=30#comment-154</guid>
		<description>MCDONALD&#039;S FOR THE WIN!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MCDONALD&#8217;S FOR THE WIN!</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://rachael.commoncircle.net/2009/06/19/toxic-veganism-boycott-soy/comment-page-1/#comment-153</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:51:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rachael.commoncircle.net/?p=30#comment-153</guid>
		<description>humans are not &#039;made&#039; or &#039;designed&#039; to be anything. we make choices in conjunction with environmental pressures and either live or die.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>humans are not &#8216;made&#8217; or &#8216;designed&#8217; to be anything. we make choices in conjunction with environmental pressures and either live or die.</p>
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		<title>By: Penny Yuen</title>
		<link>http://rachael.commoncircle.net/2009/06/19/toxic-veganism-boycott-soy/comment-page-1/#comment-151</link>
		<dc:creator>Penny Yuen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:13:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rachael.commoncircle.net/?p=30#comment-151</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your article Rachael. 

It really doesn&#039;t matter what our diet preferences are, everyone&#039;s entitled to their own dietery beliefs. The most important thing is not to be WASTEFUL when it comes to eating animals or plants. Wastefulness is the culprit of Earth abuse. Eat moderately and avoid processed food and meat from animal factories altogether. Eat only healthy animals. Eat mindfully.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your article Rachael. </p>
<p>It really doesn&#8217;t matter what our diet preferences are, everyone&#8217;s entitled to their own dietery beliefs. The most important thing is not to be WASTEFUL when it comes to eating animals or plants. Wastefulness is the culprit of Earth abuse. Eat moderately and avoid processed food and meat from animal factories altogether. Eat only healthy animals. Eat mindfully.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://rachael.commoncircle.net/2009/06/19/toxic-veganism-boycott-soy/comment-page-1/#comment-149</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:45:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rachael.commoncircle.net/?p=30#comment-149</guid>
		<description>On the one hand I have also experienced evangelical vegans (and vegetarians, for that matter) who really irritated me. On the other hand, I think you are boarding on being evangelical against them. I bristle when I see statistics cited in an article such as this because statistics do not tell the whole story. This is the quote you got my dander with, &quot;soy, like corn, is 90% genetically modified. Eat soy and you fatten Monsanto. You support agro-business, mono-cropping, genetic modification, and the monsterization of food. Your soy is nowhere near locally grown, it’s flown and trucked around, and over-processed, and you know what? It’s not even good for you—soy was sold to us as a health food by the agro-business lobby, but in fact, it has been linked to breast cancer. Raw foodies won’t touch it.&quot;

1. I don&#039;t know about your sources that say 90% of soy is genetically modified and is the &quot;bloodiest harvest&quot; we do. But, I wouldn&#039;t be surprised if it&#039;s close to reality. What bothers me here is the insistence that the soy conscious eaters eat is part of the agri-biz complex. All the soy I eat is non-GMO, sustainably farmed organic bean. Show me one vegetarian or otherwise conscious eater who buys any other soy product for their table. The 90% of soy that is genetically modified and bloody is the soy grown for the fiber for manufacturing all sorts of things from car seats to bio-fuel; for feed grain, etc. 

Boycotting organic soy destined for our tables and bellies will only serve to further reduce the support for sustainably grown farm products like soy! What we need to be looking at is the impact of the use of the non-organic products that at the end of the chain. Once again: choose your meat wisely if you eat it. MacDonalds&#039; cows are not fed organic feed stock, what a surprise! Most of the meat you buy at your major grocery store (say, Stop and Shop) was raised on the cheapest, most plentiful mass-produced grain available - don&#039;t buy it. The bio-fuel problem has already hurt food prices, never mind the demand it has created for more soy and corn to be mass produced.

2. The reason raw foodies won&#039;t touch most soy products might have something to do with the fact that most soy food products are, well, _cooked_! Tofu is not a raw food! A raw foodie will avoid it because it is cooked! Claiming they don&#039;t eat it because it&#039;s dirty soy is just wrong. Soy milk is not a raw food! I don&#039;t know anyone who eats raw soy beans, but that would be raw. I am pretty sure a raw foodie who wants to have raw soy can get organic without too much effort. If they can get raw cacao from the Amazon, they can get organic soy beans.

3. I disagree that a few ounces of chicken a week is healthier for the planet than soy. A blanket statement like that is just weak debate. 2 8 ounce tubs of tofu is healthier for you and the planet than a the same amount of chicken bought at stop and shop. Again, it&#039;s how we choose what we choose that will make the difference, not a blanket declaration that eliminating commercial demand for soy will be a major leap in the cause for saving the planet.

4. Think back to the grape boycotts. Cesar Chavez saved many lives by bringing our attention to the plight of the migrant workers and the diseases the crops they were harvesting caused. What did we really get out of that from a consumer-point-of-view? Choice. We now choose organic grapes over conventional. We also get to choose organic soy over conventional. Choosing organic soy will be a much stronger economic vote than eliminating it.

5. Monsanto is not responsible for my choice of tofu and soy milk. How my body feels after drinking cows milk and eating cows cheese drove me to find an alternative. Go figure, I feel better after a nice tofu and veggie sautee over brown rice than I do after a home-cooked steak from a free range Angus with organic potatoes. I still eat steak. I feel better when I sautee tofu. I think White Wave is doing a good thing. They have commercialized responsibly farmed soy products and made them accessible to the masses.

I will conclude by reiterating that it is our choices that will ultimately make a difference. Finding better ways to meet our demand for conventional/commercial soy is vitally important to the survival of our future generations. Soy as a plant offers so many assets it would be tantamount to throwing out the baby with the dirty bath water because we haven&#039;t figured out the best way to get the most benefit out of such a useful plant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the one hand I have also experienced evangelical vegans (and vegetarians, for that matter) who really irritated me. On the other hand, I think you are boarding on being evangelical against them. I bristle when I see statistics cited in an article such as this because statistics do not tell the whole story. This is the quote you got my dander with, &#8220;soy, like corn, is 90% genetically modified. Eat soy and you fatten Monsanto. You support agro-business, mono-cropping, genetic modification, and the monsterization of food. Your soy is nowhere near locally grown, it’s flown and trucked around, and over-processed, and you know what? It’s not even good for you—soy was sold to us as a health food by the agro-business lobby, but in fact, it has been linked to breast cancer. Raw foodies won’t touch it.&#8221;</p>
<p>1. I don&#8217;t know about your sources that say 90% of soy is genetically modified and is the &#8220;bloodiest harvest&#8221; we do. But, I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if it&#8217;s close to reality. What bothers me here is the insistence that the soy conscious eaters eat is part of the agri-biz complex. All the soy I eat is non-GMO, sustainably farmed organic bean. Show me one vegetarian or otherwise conscious eater who buys any other soy product for their table. The 90% of soy that is genetically modified and bloody is the soy grown for the fiber for manufacturing all sorts of things from car seats to bio-fuel; for feed grain, etc. </p>
<p>Boycotting organic soy destined for our tables and bellies will only serve to further reduce the support for sustainably grown farm products like soy! What we need to be looking at is the impact of the use of the non-organic products that at the end of the chain. Once again: choose your meat wisely if you eat it. MacDonalds&#8217; cows are not fed organic feed stock, what a surprise! Most of the meat you buy at your major grocery store (say, Stop and Shop) was raised on the cheapest, most plentiful mass-produced grain available &#8211; don&#8217;t buy it. The bio-fuel problem has already hurt food prices, never mind the demand it has created for more soy and corn to be mass produced.</p>
<p>2. The reason raw foodies won&#8217;t touch most soy products might have something to do with the fact that most soy food products are, well, _cooked_! Tofu is not a raw food! A raw foodie will avoid it because it is cooked! Claiming they don&#8217;t eat it because it&#8217;s dirty soy is just wrong. Soy milk is not a raw food! I don&#8217;t know anyone who eats raw soy beans, but that would be raw. I am pretty sure a raw foodie who wants to have raw soy can get organic without too much effort. If they can get raw cacao from the Amazon, they can get organic soy beans.</p>
<p>3. I disagree that a few ounces of chicken a week is healthier for the planet than soy. A blanket statement like that is just weak debate. 2 8 ounce tubs of tofu is healthier for you and the planet than a the same amount of chicken bought at stop and shop. Again, it&#8217;s how we choose what we choose that will make the difference, not a blanket declaration that eliminating commercial demand for soy will be a major leap in the cause for saving the planet.</p>
<p>4. Think back to the grape boycotts. Cesar Chavez saved many lives by bringing our attention to the plight of the migrant workers and the diseases the crops they were harvesting caused. What did we really get out of that from a consumer-point-of-view? Choice. We now choose organic grapes over conventional. We also get to choose organic soy over conventional. Choosing organic soy will be a much stronger economic vote than eliminating it.</p>
<p>5. Monsanto is not responsible for my choice of tofu and soy milk. How my body feels after drinking cows milk and eating cows cheese drove me to find an alternative. Go figure, I feel better after a nice tofu and veggie sautee over brown rice than I do after a home-cooked steak from a free range Angus with organic potatoes. I still eat steak. I feel better when I sautee tofu. I think White Wave is doing a good thing. They have commercialized responsibly farmed soy products and made them accessible to the masses.</p>
<p>I will conclude by reiterating that it is our choices that will ultimately make a difference. Finding better ways to meet our demand for conventional/commercial soy is vitally important to the survival of our future generations. Soy as a plant offers so many assets it would be tantamount to throwing out the baby with the dirty bath water because we haven&#8217;t figured out the best way to get the most benefit out of such a useful plant.</p>
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		<title>By: Kelton Baker</title>
		<link>http://rachael.commoncircle.net/2009/06/19/toxic-veganism-boycott-soy/comment-page-1/#comment-148</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelton Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:23:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rachael.commoncircle.net/?p=30#comment-148</guid>
		<description>Seems everyone has already taken you to task on this article, but two more for you:

Culling male calves (often to make veal) is a practice found in the big dairy agrobusiness. On more sustainable farms, however, cows are treated better with more productive years of giving milk and less turn-over and subsequently less calves to be culled. 

On vitamin B-12, I like to remind people that bacteria are the source of this vitamin, not animals.  It is produced by certain types of bacteria that thrive in our lower digestive tract (unfortunately, we don&#039;t absorb the nutrient there).  So how is it obtained?  It is very unpleasant to talk about, but you must somehow eat poo!  Meat-eaters get it because   animals eat poo (yes, I am aware of a somewhat special case with ruminants, but they aren&#039;t that hygenic either).   Poo, poo, poo!  A study was conducted many decades ago in Iran where poor peasant farmers living a vegan diet had adequate B-12 levels, and the reason discovered was their copius use of night soil for growing vegetables.  Personally, I like to get my B-12 from synthetic sources where it is produced by these same bacteria but in giant laboratory vats and then refined, but your mileage may vary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems everyone has already taken you to task on this article, but two more for you:</p>
<p>Culling male calves (often to make veal) is a practice found in the big dairy agrobusiness. On more sustainable farms, however, cows are treated better with more productive years of giving milk and less turn-over and subsequently less calves to be culled. </p>
<p>On vitamin B-12, I like to remind people that bacteria are the source of this vitamin, not animals.  It is produced by certain types of bacteria that thrive in our lower digestive tract (unfortunately, we don&#8217;t absorb the nutrient there).  So how is it obtained?  It is very unpleasant to talk about, but you must somehow eat poo!  Meat-eaters get it because   animals eat poo (yes, I am aware of a somewhat special case with ruminants, but they aren&#8217;t that hygenic either).   Poo, poo, poo!  A study was conducted many decades ago in Iran where poor peasant farmers living a vegan diet had adequate B-12 levels, and the reason discovered was their copius use of night soil for growing vegetables.  Personally, I like to get my B-12 from synthetic sources where it is produced by these same bacteria but in giant laboratory vats and then refined, but your mileage may vary.</p>
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		<title>By: kim</title>
		<link>http://rachael.commoncircle.net/2009/06/19/toxic-veganism-boycott-soy/comment-page-1/#comment-147</link>
		<dc:creator>kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 04:43:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rachael.commoncircle.net/?p=30#comment-147</guid>
		<description>what about organic soy?  is that modified and irresponsibly-grown as well?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what about organic soy?  is that modified and irresponsibly-grown as well?</p>
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		<title>By: ray jay</title>
		<link>http://rachael.commoncircle.net/2009/06/19/toxic-veganism-boycott-soy/comment-page-1/#comment-146</link>
		<dc:creator>ray jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 03:22:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rachael.commoncircle.net/?p=30#comment-146</guid>
		<description>While I find your views interesting and almost refreshing in the face of all the &quot;evangelical vegan&quot; propaganda I face on a regular basis, I&#039;m disappointed by the lack of sources you have provided.
Opinion is great to start discussions and make people consider alternate viewpoints, but you&#039;ll certainly have a hard time convincing anyone of anything without research to back it up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I find your views interesting and almost refreshing in the face of all the &#8220;evangelical vegan&#8221; propaganda I face on a regular basis, I&#8217;m disappointed by the lack of sources you have provided.<br />
Opinion is great to start discussions and make people consider alternate viewpoints, but you&#8217;ll certainly have a hard time convincing anyone of anything without research to back it up.</p>
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